Ophidian Convolutions

A few thoughts about 'selfishness...' pt. II

So as I'd already foreshadowed in my previous entry, now on to the subject of why the label 'selfish' sometimes irritates the hell out of me despite my being a Satanist. 

I figure there are four overlapping aspects of this.  Often they are all to some extent present simultaneously, thereby causing me to get so pissed off that I have trouble explaining clearly to someone why I'm getting so angry at them.  I've been wanting to break this down for awhile now, but I think have only recently had the distance from the past situation(s) in question necessary to really analyze the matter.

Anyway though, for the sake of greater clarity I'll use the same example for most of the discussion that follows: "It is selfish of Jinx to never have guest DJs at Chimera because she is a) denying newer DJs a chance to break through, b) failing to acknowledge the audience-draw of older DJs and c) denying her audience a chance to hear other people spin, all for the sake of her own glory and ego aggrandizement." 

Perhaps your knee-jerk reaction to that is already that it's stupid, but I'll break down why I think it is amongst these four aspects, starting with the one that annoys me least and ending with the one that annoys me most:

* * *

1) Failure to differentiate between self-absorbed and self-interested.

In the example provided, this one could be spelled out more explicitly as "if Jinx is going to act the way she is, she obviously hasn't even thought about anyone other than herself." 

When in actuality, a more accurate statement would be "Jinx has thought plenty about how other people would be affected.  She would be happy to give newer DJs a chance to break through if she thought their musical proclivities suited Chimera, but is not obligated to give up her own airtime to offer said opportunity if the fit is not there.  She has a specific vision of what selection of music she wants played at her own event, and while she enjoys the nights that other DJs have put on, that does not necessarily mean she wants them at her night.  Some people say they want guest DJs, but a number of others seem to spend so much time complaining about DJs-who-are-not-Jinx that they come off as pretty strongly against the idea.  Combine all these factors with Jinx enjoying her cult-of-personality (I mean, let's be honest here ) and she thinks it is perfectly rational to have made the decisions she has."

As my previous entry implied, I think self-absorption is a form of stupidity, so I get offended if someone implies that I've made a stupid decision when they probably don't even know much about my thought process.  Or thinks that the sheer fact that I disagree with them means that I haven't thought about something as much as they have.  True, much of what I cited in my previous paragraph is still 'Jinx-centric' reasoning in that it pertains to what I want at my event, i.e. "the world should revolve around me" as per my previous entry.  But I don't think that is the same thing as not considering other people at all, i.e. "the world does revolve around me."


2) The person making the accusation of selfishness is motivated by their own self-interest and/or self-absorption.

This applies to any DJ who acts as though I am only in it for the money (ha ha), attention and reputation-builidng whereas they are some kind of scene martyr who doesn't expect to be paid and "just wants to play the music that people really want to hear." 

(Nor is this by any means every or most DJs who are willing to DJ for free; I'm just saying I have encountered some people who seem to have a 'mission' in a more pretentious sense than others.)

My experience has been that anyone who acts this way is just as eager for recognition as any other DJ, but can't admit it to themselves because it would contradict their self-image of being such a thoughtful, considerate, self-sacrificing person.

Let me go a few steps beyond that to add: I think that the majority of times someone gets mad about someone else being selfish, this is an issue.  "Euthanasia is selfish" is a classic of this.  So the person who wants to die is 'selfish?'  Fuck off with that.  It seems pretty obvious to me that the family who wants to keep the person alive as long as possible even though they are suffering horribly, just because they can't bear the pain of losing them (even though it's going to happen eventually anyway) is far more 'selfish.' 

In short, in any statement of the form "you should do X because the alternative hurts my feelings / cramps my style / interferes with my plans / etc,"  I figure that my is a far more key word than the speaker may consciously realize.  This could be motivated by self-interest, or it could be motivated by self-absorption. 

My hunch, however, is that the latter is more common, because the self-interested person is more likely to think "hey, I'm out for my own benefit too, I can't blame you if you're out for your own, and if I wouldn't share if I was in your position, there's a limit to how pissed off I can get about you not sharing with me."  Therefore, unless they are engaged in manipulative guilt game-playing, they are not as likely to be throwing the label 'selfish' around as opposed to just going "well, that isn't to my advantage but I don't blame you."

Whereas by contrast, the self-absorbed person is the one who goes "but I haven't DJed in ages and people want to hear my music and since I always had guest DJs, that's the right way to run an event and you are running your event the wrong way because you don't have guest DJs all the time like I did."  Oooooh, sorry for not living up to your high-and-mighty precedent-setting actions.  How horribly 'selfish' of me to be doing things my way instead of the 'right' way, which oh-so-coincidentally happens to be your way.


3) I am doing the same damn thing that most people would do in my position, so why the fuck am I being called 'selfish' other than because I am a Satanist?

Having traveled a fair bit, I have gotten the impression from what I've seen in other cities that there are lots of DJs who don't have guests all the time, or in some cases, ever.  Hogging as much attention for oneself as possible in order to advance one's own career seems like pretty widespread practice.  But are these other DJs getting accused of being 'selfish' as much as I have? 

It really pisses me off when I do something that I think there is a perfectly rational basis for doing, and then get called 'selfish' over it when anybody else in my position who had the same goals + half a brain would be doing the same damn thing.

I once said to someone that this kind of thing to me has certain similarities to, you go out for dinner with your Jewish friend expecting them to pay for your dinner, and when they don't you accuse them of being stingy. 

I said this in anger and it is obviously a weak parallel, because selfishness (in the form of self-interestedness) is an intrinsic part of Satanism whereas stinginess is not an intrinsic part of Judaism. 

My point though was: if trait X is associated with group Y and you haul trait X out just because trait X sounds like an insult to you and you are trying to insult someone in group Y, this strikes me as lazy at best and as some form of religious bigotry at worst. 

Moreover, notice how the Judaism example connects to point #2: you are expecting your friend to pay for you and kicking up a fuss because they don't do what you want.  If I get the impression that someone thus is failing to truly grasp their own motivations (i.e. being self-absorbed) on top of throwing a cheap-and-easy insult (in terms of their intention, never mind that selfishness need not be a bad thing in my world), it tends to tip me rapidly toward the 'too angry to explain myself competantly' zone.  It smacks to me of the person projecting all of their own self-absorption on to me so that they can maintain their delusional self-image of themselves as an oh-so-giving-and-considerate person while still getting what they want.  Fuck that.  If you're mainly out for number 1, at least admit it and I'd be more than happy to have us deal on equal terms as two equally self-interested individuals. 


4) "Look bitch, you knew I was a snake."

(The DJing example doesn't apply so well to this one, unless we want to assume the DJ in question is a friend of mine, and that's more personal than I want to get right now.  So I'll drop that example now.)

This line I just quoted is from part of Natural Born Killers.  It's from where the native elder guy tells a story about how a woman found a snake frozen in winter, and felt bad for it, so she took it in and nursed it back to health.  Then, when it was all better, one day it bit her on the cheek.  As she lay dying, she asked the snake why it had acted this way when she had been so kind to it.  And the snake said "Look bitch, you knew I was a snake."

The point here is: I don't think I exactly make it a secret that I'm a Satanist and have the views that I do, and hence am more likely to act explicitly and openly for my own self-benefit than other people may.  If someone knows this about me, yet nonetheless continues to associate with me, I tend to assume this means that they have at least some minimal acceptance that this is the way I am, since no one is holding a gun to their head forcing them to associate with me.

Thus, the absolute most irritating selfishness accusation that I encounter is the one that goes "well, at first I didn't trust you because you're a Satanist, then I got to know you and saw that you were ok, but then you did (something that clashes with the person's own priorities) and I realized my first instinct that you were selfish was right, and you should care that this bothers me and apologize/change something/etc. because you're my friend." 

Now, I guess I could see something to be said for this argument if I were going around presenting myself as princess-sweetness-and-light and then taking advantage of people and fucking them over. 

But things being as they are, any person who pulls this on me can seriously go fuck themselves. 

Especially since I find this one usually comes from past partners, in which case the rejoinder becomes "It's not my fault that, as a result of thinking with your dick instead of your brain, you've chosen to associate with me when you don't actually like certain obvious core aspects of my personality.  So instead of trying to change those aspects so that you can keep having the sex that you're addicted to without our wills clashing, how about you man up and just decide to stop associating with me?  Oh, and PS, thanks for using me when apparently you never actually liked me to begin with."  Yeah, fucking awesome.

To clarify, I am not trying to say here that all my friends/partners/associates/etc. should always be on guard against me because I'm likely to betray them.  To the contrary, I tend to feel pretty strongly about my friendships, and in cases where I haven't, I regret leading the person on to think we were friends even if I don't regret my behavior toward them otherwise. 

For the most part though, I think I treat my friends at least as well as anyone else does (see #3) so when someone accuses me otherwise, I tend to think they are potentially guilty of #2, and the sheer fact that all of this is happening because the person chose to be friends with me even knowing what I'm about is what constitutes #4.  So you see what I mean about how these things all tend to be hopelessly intertangled.

* * *

So to summarize: self-absorbed person who implies I'm stupid + hypocritically criticizes me for doing exactly what they themselves are doing + expresses this via a cheap lazy insult + is basically mad at me because they themselves chose to associate with me = Die die die die etc. 

I'm thankful this kind of thing is extremely rare in my life, with most people I encounter seemingly having enough grasp of what wavelength I'm on that this nonsense doesn't occur.  I suspect it irritates me all the more when it does happen for that very reason though.
Posted at 05:49 PM on Thursday, March 12
Category: For Fucksakes




Comments

>> Jez wrote:

A grand wee read. I particularly liked the equation, it made me smile!

Thursday, March 12 06:11 PM


>> Canticle wrote:

I intensely dislike people who view self advancement as some kind of negative concept. The entire reason we're not slapping away at each other and hurling feces is because at some point in the past, one of us looked up from rooting around in anothers hair for ticks and said,"Motherfucker, there has GOT to be a better way of doing this".

Even in the most 'altruistic' cases, most people are actually fulfilling selfish desires. 90% of people (I'm pulling a stat out of my ass here) who self identify as liberal, I guarantee they do 'good works' because it makes THEM feel better. It either assuages their sense of Western guilt, makes them believe they've done something good for the world (self satisfaction) or otherwise fits into a category OTHER than 'selfless act'. I do believe altruism exists, especially as a father when I've in at least one situation I can recall (with clarity now) completely ignored personal, immediate danger to remove my son from said danger. However, acts of true altruism almost EXCLUSIVELY occur within immediate family, and I imagine that on a subconcious level, there's the whole 'must preserve the genes!' thing making family altruism somewhat less than TRUE altruism on a genetic level.

In short.

I associate with you because I like you. I know who you are and what that means so I'm not going to get my boxers (not briefs) in a bunch because you look out for number one.

Thursday, March 12 07:20 PM


>> StardustnPrison wrote:

One thing to be considered is that the person may not be that informed about Satanism and perhaps they never knew what you stood for.

Thursday, March 12 11:28 PM


>> StardustnPrison wrote:

Also, going back to part 1 of this entry, does Satanism actually have any "sins" so to speak or was that language to simply illustrate your point?

Thursday, March 12 11:30 PM


>> Nscafe Unleaded wrote:

What? You're a DJ?

Awww man, now I have to re-evaluate my perception of you.

:P

(pardon the silliness, not enough sleep on my end)

Friday, March 13 08:41 AM


>> Thiyavat wrote:

Jez: Thanks, always glad to hear I'm entertaining you. :)

Canticle:
I agree with you re: altruism. I think your point accords well with a thought I've had that "love thy neighbour as thyself" is, if one thinks about it, an admission that self-interest is actually primary. ("You know what self interest is? Now go apply that to other people too." :) )

StardustnPrison (first comment):
in the vast majority of selfishness-accusation cases that I figure I'm likely to encounter in my life, I know #1-3 is all that is going on and it is plenty already to annoy me anyway. I don't find that at all difficult to recognize.

The *only* identifiable case I've had of #4 was with someone who had known me 12 years and whom I'd had lots of deep conversations with, so I don't think they could pull this excuse. "Lots of deep conversations" is moreover par for anyone I actually consider a friend.

Also, if someone claims they know what it's about (which was explicitly spelled out as part of #4 in the fourth paragraph), when they don't, and then are using that as a basis of judging me, I'm thinking that might even qualify as a #5 of stupidity, liable earn them even more "fuck off" points. :)

For the record, I have had friends accuse me of not thinking of them the way I should have and thought it was a legitimate claim that I apologized for. For example, I had one friend years ago who was upset at me for not coming home with her when she was freaking out on coke instead of staying at the party I was at. Due to my limited drug experience at the time + her not having said much when we were actually at the party other than the mere fact that she was on coke, I hadn't realized she was in such distress. If I'd known and picked up on how upset she actually was, I definitely would have gone with her, so I apologized. I didn't mean to imply that I do not think friends will ever make any legitimate complaints about me, rather I'm bitching about a specific subset of complaints that I see as groundless.

StardustnPrison (second comment):
Yeah, there are, though my impression is that they are spelled out as examples more just to clarify the belief system overall than because it's particularly important how many there are or what they are called or etc. (Like, they do not have the same weighty importance as, say, desire/attachment in Buddhism.) See http://www.churchofsatan.co...

Nscafe Unleaded: I think most DJs who are honest with themselves would admit they have at least some strong elements of egomania. :)

Friday, March 13 01:12 PM


>> Electric Maenad wrote:

Just out of curiosity, do you think that people also bitch more about your not inviting guest DJs because you're a woman and women are *supposed* to be nice, accommodating, unselfish blah blah blah etc.?

Saturday, March 21 10:01 PM


>> mr yuck wrote:

I've always assumed that the more socially intelligent among us don't loudly broadcast the fact that they operate in a sphere principally dominated by their own self-interest, even when that is true (which is it for almost 100% of everybody on the planet).

Even being generous to others is usually a form of self-interest; but again it's not very socially intelligent to broadcast that.

As an old Eskimo saying goes: the best place to store your extra whale blubber is in another guy's stomach.

Wednesday, March 25 04:01 PM


>> Thiyavat wrote:

Electric Maenad: funny you mention that, I was actually talking to someone about that just the other day. I think that's definitely part of it, though I'm undecided about how big a part it plays.

mr yuck: in my experience there's two main options on this front: either don't broadcast the fact that it's all self-interest and leave people to assume whatever motives they're most comfortable with, or advertise it openly in a sufficiently charismatic manner for people to nonetheless treat you no differently than they do anyone else. My own experience has been that if one is sufficiently charismatic, surprisingly few people think ill of one for being openly self-interested.

Wednesday, March 25 08:24 PM


>> mr yuck wrote:

Charismatic? Would that be an example of self-absorption?

Saturday, March 28 02:03 AM


>> Thiyavat wrote:

mr yuck: since, as I've defined it in my previous entry, self-absorption entails faulty ability to actually understand other people, it follows from this that a self-absorbed person would be capable of only limited charisma, because they wouldn't be able to understand how to actually make themselves appealing to others.

Saturday, March 28 05:59 PM


>> mr yuck wrote:

:)

Monday, March 30 03:13 PM




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